Thursday, 3 November 2016

What I learned after 100,000 miles on the road talking to Trump supporters

quote [ Donald Trump’s message resonates in the most forgotten corners of the US, because viewed from these places, America no longer seems a great country. ]

More American politics, sorry everyone. This seemed like an article which wasn't making apologies for the racism, cultural xenophobia, etc, that's driving Donald's support, but at the same time those fears don't come out of nowhere, and it's important to understand those stories.
[SFW] [politics] [+6 Underrated]
[by Spyike@1:37pmGMT]


sanepride said[1] @ 3:06pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
Yep. For a lengthy but informative explanation of exactly why these people are supporting Trump (more specifically, how the Democrats lost them), see The New Yorker article I posted a few days ago.
Also, Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance seems to be among the most cited references among those analyzing the socioeconomic malaise of the WWC (Haven't had a chance to read it yet myself). Interesting interview with Vance here

If Hillary and her team are really smart, and she manages to win, first thing she should do is go on a kind of 'reconciliation tour', go to these places in the rust belt and the deep south and talk to these folks, try to connect with them a bit. Not a very Hillary thing to do, but it would be at least some small amelioration.
LurkerAtTheGate said @ 6:25pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
I wouldn't advise trying to reconcile with the south. People down here will be pretty damn sour, aren't graceful in defeat, and kind of relish the shit-talking for the next 4-8 years. They still talk about the abominable Obama presidency. Makes family events fun when I point out all the investment gains made in the last 8 years.
arrowhen said @ 6:28pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Hell, some of them are still bitter about the Civil War.
HoZay said @ 6:46pm GMT on 3rd Nov
They talk about Sherman like Atlanta's still smoking.
cb361 said @ 7:16pm GMT on 3rd Nov
I was surprised how relevant Americans still find the war of independence. It makes sense, I suppose, but that war is is hardly even a footnote in British consciousness.
arrowhen said @ 8:57pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Insightful]
It's OK, we don't take it personally. When you've suffered as many humiliating defeats as you guys have in the long, painful collapse of your once vast empire, I'm sure it's hard to feel bad about any one of them in particular.
7 said[1] @ 8:20pm GMT on 3rd Nov
that war is is hardly even a footnote in British consciousness.

cause we whooped yer ass

cb361 said @ 8:40pm GMT on 3rd Nov
I was expecting that response. And it might indeed be the reason. I just can't say because I don't actually know anything about American independence. But then I don't know anything about Australian, Canadian or Kenyan independence from the British empire either. Indian independence was something to do with Gandhi, I believe. That one was the only one that had any lasting influence on British culture.
7 said @ 8:54pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Seriously, I think it's more because the revolution was tied to the formation of the country, and therefore holy.
HoZay said @ 9:34pm GMT on 3rd Nov
We also don't have as much history as the UK. Your schools must skim over quite a lot of your own history, just hit the high points. Maybe Hastings, Cromwell, Wellington, Thatcher?
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:06pm GMT on 3rd Nov
You should hear Canada talk about the war of 1812. They played an ad for that ad a movie theater when I was there. Having to stifle back the laughter was very uncomfortable.
HoZay said @ 10:15pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Well, they did burn the White House.
sanepride said @ 6:31pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Oh I'm under no illusion that Hillary could win these folks over. The idea is to just try to explain that she's not Satan and that her policies may actually bring them some benefit. Maybe it's futile but hell, not like she'd have anything to lose by reaching out. At least she could say she tried.
Spyike said @ 7:15pm GMT on 3rd Nov
That makes sense, but I agree she won't do it. Doesn't seem like her vibe.
lilmookieesquire said @ 8:50pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Folks, maybe. Politicians, no. That was Obama': mistake. And really at the end of the day he couldn't even keep much of his base happy. And while I think history will remember him fondly
The thing is, these people have been hurt by her policies and they do t trust her words.

She's more likely to win them over through policy, but that's spending political income with very little political payback.

Not saying she can't- but if she is able to, that's literally going to make her the most important polititian since the 1970s sans being a female
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:04pm GMT on 3rd Nov
(I modded for the post reference and the links. Throwing the south a bone won't work for another twenty years and the foundations for education etc have to be laid down first.
HoZay said @ 9:27pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
That will take way more than twenty years.
7 said @ 2:52pm GMT on 3rd Nov
I was half expecting a blank page.
LurkerAtTheGate said @ 6:12pm GMT on 3rd Nov
white-space power !
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:14pm GMT on 3rd Nov
It became simple: if I wanted to talk to a community overwhelmingly supporting Trump, I would go to a white town or neighborhood nearest the rusting factory surrounded by razor fence.

If I wanted to find Clinton, or Jeb Bush, or even Rubio voters, I would go near a university, or go to the wealthier neighborhoods near tech companies, or near headquarters of global corporations.

Sounds like not much has changed since the primaries. The results should be interesting.
HoZay said[1] @ 5:39pm GMT on 3rd Nov
This where you go if you're only talking to white voters, and still pretending race isn't fundamental to this division.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 5:55pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
Actually, I was referring to the fact that Bernie beat Hillary handily out in those areas where Trump support is flourishing. So much so that it was often thanks to massive numbers in the "innovation" centers mentioned that she won enough votes to destroy Bernie's support in the rest of the state. This is a class war. Racism is just a tool of the top. Trump gets compared to Hitler so often you'd think people would remember the economic disparity that Hitler blamed on the Jews and other "undesirables."
sanepride said[1] @ 6:41pm GMT on 3rd Nov
But it's not a class war in the solely economic sense, but also a cultural one. That is, between the 'cosmopolitan elite' and the 'Wall Mart shoppers'. True that the former tend to be the higher earners, but the boundaries also transcend traditional economic considerations. If it was Bernie instead of Hillary vs. Trump, I sense the battle lines would have ended up in about the same place.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 6:57pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
Bernie would've stomped Trump. This election should have been a slam dunk. A grand slam. A hole in one. Pick your sports metaphor. You've got a shitty, compromised candidate. You've got a candidate absolutely struggling against Donald 'tiny fucking hands' Trump. If that doesn't illustrate how shitty a candidate Hillary Clinton is, nothing will.
sanepride said @ 7:13pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Well obviously Bernie would enjoy a higher level of enthusiasm, but he'd still be the candidate of the educated elite, culturally speaking. If we saw significant numbers of Bernie supporters moving to Trump, that would bear out your contention. But that's not what we're seeing.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 7:18pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Really? According to you, and quite a few others, our third party votes have been exactly that. Like I said, the results should be interesting.
sanepride said @ 7:29pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Latest 4-way polling has Jill Stein at around 2%, Gary Johnson at around 4% (and falling). Assuming most hard-core Bernie supporters are going for Stein, that doesn't indicate a giant difference in actual numbers.
I'm not saying that Bernie wouldn't have beaten Trump, I'd certainly like to think he would, just that based on the established cultural divides (which have less to do with economic class than people assume) the numbers at this point would probably be about the same.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 7:50pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Again, the results should be interesting.
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:12pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Educated elite, yes, but he struck me as far less elite than Hilary and he had more credit for believing-in what he's proposing. That said I think Bernie and Elizabeth Warren would be unstoppable- but taking them out of the senate and into an ineffective office of the presidency would hurt their agendas more than help them- but might have a very positive down the ballot effect and more millenials would come out without a doubt.
HoZay said @ 6:58pm GMT on 3rd Nov
How Clinton’s Agenda Would Help Trump Supporters
She's been talking about this stuff throughout the campaign. How come brown working-class people can hear it, but white working-class people can't?
mechanical contrivance said @ 7:12pm GMT on 3rd Nov
It doesn't matter what Hillary says. All that matters is that Trump is going to get rid of the Mexicans.
sanepride said @ 7:19pm GMT on 3rd Nov
That's the big question, isn't it? It's a cultural disconnect, reinforced by the rise of identity politics and a perception that the Democrats have left them behind- dating back ironically to the Bill Clinton years.
Explained at length here.
raphael_the_turtle said @ 7:19pm GMT on 3rd Nov
How can brown working class people vote for the person that pushed policies that decimated their communites? The questions keep stacking up.
HoZay said @ 8:10pm GMT on 3rd Nov
Maybe your premise is flawed?
raphael_the_turtle said[1] @ 8:21pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:1 Underrated]
A welfare bill that doubled extreme poverty rates and a crime bill that put a disproportionate number of people of color in prison. That's not a really a flawed premise. It's pretty well accepted at this point.
HoZay said @ 10:13pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:-1 Troll]
filtered comment under your threshold
raphael_the_turtle said @ 10:35pm GMT on 3rd Nov [Score:-1]
filtered comment under your threshold
HoZay said @ 12:32am GMT on 4th Nov [Score:-1]
filtered comment under your threshold
raphael_the_turtle said @ 12:37am GMT on 4th Nov [Score:-1]
filtered comment under your threshold
cb361 said @ 7:11pm GMT on 3rd Nov
What I learned after 100,000 miles on the road talking to Trump supporters?

knumbknutz said[1] @ 5:34pm GMT on 5th Nov
Poor guy.
Fish said @ 7:01am GMT on 6th Nov
Actual title of the article:

What I MADE UP after no miles on the road, no talking to Trump supporters


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