Friday, 22 August 2014

If you're an 'at will' employee in Texas, it's not fraud if your employer lies to you.

quote [ The Texas Supreme Court held, essentially, that fraudulent inducement is immaterial in at-will employment, because either way you're out the door. The employer could have gotten rid of you with or without the lie, so you can't claim fraud, because the deception was irrelevant. ]

It'd be nice if this actually made people re-think all the anti-union rhetoric they've been swallowing for decades, because this is Lex Luthor supervillain crap, here. DuPont told its employees their part of the company wouldn't be spun-off and the lot of them fired, which is now "honest," I guess.
[SFW] [politics] [+7 Informative]
[by Dumbledorito@9:01pmGMT]


bobolink said @ 9:39pm GMT on 22nd Aug [Score:2]
I'm being a shit house lawyer here, but I had a year and a half of law school and it included tort law, and from what I can tell from the article the court is making the case that this is the wrong cause of action. That is, fraud is the wrong rule that was broken, to seek relief. I could be all wet, but if that is the case, there may be another way to seek relief. I won't be offended by correction, certainly.

That said, at will employment is the other end of the pendulum from the hey day of the UAW/Teamsters Union I grew up with in Detroit. It's places too much power in the hands of one side and corruption is sure to follow. I think we are probably at a low point in my lifetime in terms of worker's rights.

But all the union talk is not rhetoric. When the unions were big, everyone knew they were mobbed up. There were death threats back and forth between union and management. There was a lot of union money stolen from workers that enriched corrupt people. Of course it was before the state ran the lottery so they provided that service. It was much different times. Happy medium was probably 85 to 95.
sanepride said @ 11:51pm GMT on 22nd Aug
Or at least live and work in a state that has some degree of employee protection on the books.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:10am GMT on 23rd Aug
When I talk about rhetoric, I'm talking about equating labor unions with communism and other hyperbolic nonsense that one usually hears from places like the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, etc.
bobolink said @ 12:57am GMT on 23rd Aug
Ah, I see. Been a while since I've read much of that, but it's not hard to construct the argument. Grim.
Dumbledorito said @ 4:49am GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Informative]
Probably the biggest anti-union gripe I hear that's complete BS is "you can't fire anyone," especially teachers.

Every Union contract I've ever read has the conditions listed under which a union member can be fired. The problem for many assholes in management is that this requires things called "documentation" and "evidence," whereas they just want to fire someone that they don't care for. It requires due diligence from management, and very often, those are the real lazy fucks that think things like refusing to do jobs that aren't in your job description for no extra pay is a fireable offense.

Not to mention the whole "at will" system allows bigotry and discrimination with no paper trail. Fun times.
Bruceski said @ 5:34am GMT on 23rd Aug
I've heard people citing construction workers and how "there's always workers who aren't actually working."

First: they tend to be working right by traffic and with dangerous equipment. You want a spotter for that stuff.

Second: Two people digging a hole goes faster than one even if you only have one shovel. One can work while the other rests.
Dumbledorito said @ 6:59am GMT on 23rd Aug
Yep. And that perception leads to this "at will" stuff which lets workers be fired for no real reason and no sympathy from an ignorant public right before they'd normally get a bump in pay (hi, Wal-Mart!).
mechavolt said @ 10:49pm GMT on 22nd Aug
Surely this travesty will ignite the national public into a frothing rage, and they will demand restitution and protection from the powerful.
Resurrected Morris said @ 11:00pm GMT on 22nd Aug
What is an at will employee?
HoZay said @ 11:30pm GMT on 22nd Aug
Someone who can be fired just for the hell of it.
backSLIDER said @ 4:33am GMT on 23rd Aug
In AZ everyone is an "At Will employee". At will was the nice name they put on the bill that took away your right to sue if you got fired for no reason/ bull shit. It also means that you can quit at any time. Like that matters. It's bull shit and I knew a couple of people that were fired for things out of their control as scape goats. One of the reasons I came back to California.
midden said @ 1:56pm GMT on 23rd Aug
A lot depends and the scale of the business. I once had to fire a guy just because he was an asshole and none of us liked working with him. He did his job well enough, but in a small company, his mere presence made it an unpleasant work environment for all of us. He was a detriment to the organization. If guys like him could sue for being fired, it would bog down the world of small business.

Being able to quit at any time does matter. Leaving at a bad time can seriously screw other employees and the business as a whole.

Two weeks notice is a good business etiquette, in both directions. When I fired that guy, I asked him to be gone by the end of the day, but gave him two weeks salary as severance. I didn't have to, but not being an asshole is generally better for everyone in the long run. It's best to part an good terms, or at least not on really shitty terms.
Dumbledorito said @ 7:57am GMT on 23rd Aug
Ever hear the phrase "Fire at will?"

Pretty much that.
ooo[......7 said @ 6:34pm GMT on 23rd Aug
my boss lies to me all the time and there is nothing i can do about it. if i call him on it he changes the subject or flat out denies it.

please don't let him see this decision.
aphex808 said @ 8:57pm GMT on 23rd Aug
I'm so fucking glad I got out of Texas. It's in a race to the bottom.
Dumbledorito said @ 10:06pm GMT on 23rd Aug
Kansas isn't far behind. It'll be a real example of mindless, partisan voting if Governor Brownback stays in office. Not only does he favor things of this nature for labor, he's basically cut taxes for corporate entities (and the rich, naturally) so much that even big corporations like Applebee's have decided that Kansas is probably not a good place to stay, economically. Since the GOP basically runs the state, how his base manages to not realize that the right wing line about taxation and regulation is burning their economy to the ground probably has a name that psychiatrists prescribe medication for.

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