Sunday, 8 November 2020
quote [ The congresswoman said Joe Biden’s relationship with progressives would hinge on his actions. And she dismissed criticism from House moderates, calling some candidates who lost their races “sitting ducks.” ]
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rylex said @ 9:13pm GMT on 8th Nov
[Score:3 Underrated]
totally hit the nail on the head. as much as i dislike AOC, she and I agree on this one. dems have lost touch with their progressives
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steele said @ 10:08pm GMT on 8th Nov
[Score:1 Insightful]
"Lost touch" kind of implies that it's involuntary though. Maybe "use, dispose, and despise their progressives"?
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rylex said @ 12:55am GMT on 9th Nov
pretty sure it is involuntary. conservative morals dont jibe with progressive
old people need to die off already, and their ideals with them |
snowfox said @ 2:10am GMT on 9th Nov
This is an unending cycle. Every generation is always the worst one yet according to the elderly, and all the anti-progressive oppression will always go away when the elderly die according to the young.
I see too many people younger than I am who are even more regressive than the elderly regressives to believe that time and the icy grip of death will solve our problems. The reality is that we have disparate groups in our population who want different things. Assuming everyone in your demographic is like you and you'd get what you want if not for everyone else is naïve at best. |
hellboy said @ 6:50am GMT on 9th Nov
That's part of what she's saying: you have to make the case, you can't just disguise or abandon your principles for fear of offending people.
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damnit said[1] @ 12:25am GMT on 9th Nov
The Dems have been playing the “let’s work together and meet in the middle” strategy for so long to “get votes” from the right and Republicans keep moving the needle further right on their own terms.
Most of congress are morally Republicans. Establishment Republicans just don’t want anyone tied to the Democrat party to get any policy out the door. So Romney had to eat his own words and abandon his baby (Romneycare, which is Obamacare). |
snowfox said[1] @ 2:18am GMT on 9th Nov
But, when we dig in our heels and refuse to compromise, do we get our way? We're supposed to be creating wedge compromises that allow us to slowly take what we want before the Republicans can stop us.
Obamacare was a good example. They used Romneycare against the GOP to pass something that wedged the door open. That compromise was never meant to be our final result. It got the burner turned on so we could slowly boil the frog. We got close. People were arriving at the conclusion on their own that it would be better if this system were single payer or regulated in such a way that the free market had to offer a specific product for a specific price. People were talking about how it would cost us less in taxes to buy the pharma companies outright than to keep paying their prices. We cannot force revelations and epiphanies. We have to enable people to have them. They have to feel it's their idea and their choice, that we created something that's good but poorly executed and they could improve it. People on SE believe they can force their views on the unwilling, but you guys couldn't even force them on one person - me - who mostly agrees with you. So what makes you think that battering ram strategy will work on the country? |
hellboy said @ 7:02am GMT on 9th Nov
When we do compromise, do we get our way? The dynamic that keeps happening over and over again is the Democrats run, they say that progressives have to vote for them because the Republicans are a nightmare, the progressives compromise and support the Democrats, the Democrats either lose the election and blame the progressives, or win the election and blame the progressives and instead compromise with the Republicans they just beat. In no case do the progressives get what they want, they always have to compromise to appease the centrists. And the Democrats wonder why it's so hard to get progressives to vote for them.
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snowfox said @ 10:24am GMT on 9th Nov
Yes. Progress has, without a doubt, happened. We had to chisel away it. It was protests but it was also finding the right court cases to set up a conclusion people would stop if they saw coming. The first step is being able to even compromise with eachother. I remember when the left on SE was unified. Those days are long over. I'm open to compromise, but not with other people who aren't. That is the key. You do not negotiate with terrorists. Any group willing to make consessions, willing to work with you, is one you can slowly work to your advantage.
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tom the fish said @ 1:23am GMT on 9th Nov
[Score:2 Underrated]
“Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man.
You take a step toward him. He takes a step back. “Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man. |
Mikhail_16 said @ 8:32pm GMT on 9th Nov
[Score:1 Underrated]
I really wish I could mod this up. This is nail on the head with the last 20ish (or even 30ish) years of US politics, regardless of who's labeled as unjust.
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snowfox said @ 3:22am GMT on 11th Nov
I agree with you. Don't negotiate with terrorists.
There is a part of the GOP that still has a real intent to govern and believes in infrastructure. Infrastructure bills used to be the bipartisan buffers between more contentious issues. Refusing to compromise isn't something we should do on either side of the aisle. The ideal is for both parties to exclude those who can't work with others. Those who are willing and able to negotiate, even if they don't agree on all issues, can get something done. We know there are sane people on the right. Trump forced them to out themselves as much as he enabled the Nazis to step into the light. Now that they've seen how bad it can get, it's the best possible time to create alliances. So the answer is not for the left to stop negotiating, but to stop negotiating with those unwilling to compromise. Obstructionist governance should not be a goal and should be condemned no matter who does it. I think our biggest challenge on this front is to amend rules that make obstruction and a government that refuses to govern impossible. If we could do that, the benefits would be far-reaching. This is not as progressive as what I want, ultimately, but it is a path forward, a path where we shut doors behind us to create better circumstances for improvement. |
hellboy said @ 6:49am GMT on 9th Nov
[Score:1 Underrated]
AOC is the most talented and inspiring politician in 50 years and she's dead on here.
(Obama was a nobody at her age. Ardern might be close, but she doesn't have to work as hard.) |
snowfox said @ 9:18pm GMT on 9th Nov
I'm not surprised. Elizabeth Warren and Jill Stein were both trotted out as women SEers would vote for, but not Hillary Clinton. Stein was Russian interference and she was an anti-vaxxer. People were just naming female politicians. As long as AOC was proof a "progressive" man wasn't sexist or racist, and as long as she was a Bernie supporter, she was beloved. But pursue real power or have her own opinions? Suddenly, they hate her, just like Warren. By the time she runs for a higher office, the same people who said they would vote for her will have a litany of complaints against her. Meanwhile, their preferred white male candidate remains without fault.
The pattern has been established. I'll amend my views on that when something different happens. |
hellboy said @ 5:41am GMT on 14th Nov
I voted for Bernie in 2016 and still like him; I've also sent money to AOC (and Omar and other female candidates), voted for Warren in 2020, and am looking forward to voting for AOC at some point down the road for president (hopefully after she's been governor or senator). So something different has already happened.
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coffeejoejava said @ 10:52pm GMT on 11th Nov
[Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold |
yunnaf said @ 9:06am GMT on 10th Nov
Two party system is too limiting. It's undemocratic.
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coffeejoejava said @ 10:50pm GMT on 11th Nov
[Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold |
They Are Trying To Silence AOC, Because Money Never Sleeps - The Daily Poster
Episode 17 - Bernie Would Have Won | Bad Faith on Patreon - Ignore the title, it's just a joke. Briahna Joy Gray and Virgil Texas do a really good breakdown on how the Biden Campaign affected downballot races and what needs to be done in the future.